Korrigierter PBO-Bericht stellt fest, dass die CO2-Steuer den meisten Kanadiern schlechter geht, auch wenn sie mehr Rabatte erhalten
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pbo-carbon-tax-canadians-worse-off-rebates?taid=6708085462dfc70001ce103b&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
45 Comments
The very idea of a carbon tax is a fantastic idea. The implementation and perceived benefit still fall under the fantasy and delusion category.
Clearly the Liberal’s need to increase their messaging to the PBO, they’re not getting their message about how great everything is for Canadians. They’re just experiencing the budget differently.
<Shocked Pikachu Face>Really?</Shocked Pikachu Face>
Well, well, well.
Where are all those so called “financial experts” and “accountants” when I said this six months ago?
It’s absolutely crazy that despite it being right in front of their own faces, that dispite everybody with more than 2 working brain cells can see it with their own eyes….. people were still denying it.
Everything like this fails because there are too many ways for corporations to keep themselves ultra profitable while putting the cost on the middle and low income classes.
In theory its great, in reality trickle down economics is actually trickle down costs and trickle up profits.
“Giroux found the Liberals’ claim that most Canadians receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes is accurate. Only people in the highest income brackets in Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia will pay more in taxes than they receive in rebates.”
This is all that really matters to the Liberals and will be their defence. Impact on GDP will be targeted by the conservatives but the liberals will either ignore it or say it’s worth it to fight climate change.
So, politically, this doesn’t change anything for the current dynamic. Policy wise, it is good data though. We need to know the downsides of the policies implemented and it’s been fuzzy around this carbon tax for too long.
Strange. Other media outlets are saying that the report finds canadians are better off. It’s almost like everyone is seeing the report through different lenses. The media is biased, we are biased, what are we doing here?
90% of it is:
If you don’t want to spend money to mitigate climate change then carbon tax = bad
If you want to do something to mitigate climate change, carbon tax = good
Let’s argue.
Once everything is included, we are definitely hurting because of it.
The Liberals botched the entire concept of a Carbon Tax. The implemented it wrong. They messaged it wrong. They are inept.
Is there any hard data on the actual reduction in emissions that can be directly arrtibuted to the carbon tax?
Maybe we are paying more than we get back…maybe were not.
But many times when anything ‘carbon tax’ comes up I often hear that people have no choice but to drive to work, haul goods by truck, or heat their homes with propane or gas.
Anecdotally, the cost in living in general has reduced my KMs. Not the carbon tax that I supposedly get refunded.
So how much have we actually reduced those emissions?
And how does that reduction look against Canada’s total emissions and then against global emissions?
Don’t tell all the Liberal subs. Most of us knew this from the start of this virtue signaling grift.
Woah woah woah woah, according to these ducks me getting $50 quarterly makes my life better….. Its not true???
Wasn’t the carbon tax a conservative idea? I mean it’s purely libertarian: if you want to pay less, consume less. That way they avoid actually regulating anything.
It’s literally a mechanism to put the market at the steering wheel. Yet it feels like there’s more suburban commuters around me than ever buying 3/4 ton trucks because they occasionally need to move some topsoil.
What fucking rebates did I get?
There’s two conclusions here:
1) most Canadians get back more in rebates than they pay in
2) accounting for long term drag on GDP growth, over time most Canadians will experience a little less income growth over the long term.
You can debate whether the policy is worthwhile (I’d ask you to show me a meaningful climate change plan that doesn’t come with any costs), but it is obvious that these two conclusions are frequently confused or conflated on this sub
“confirmed most Canadians are getting back more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes”
Something people need to consider is how worse off Canadians will be if we allow Climate Change to run rampant and do nothing. The cost of doing nothing is even higher.
Do we have a reputable source who’s reviewed the findings and can offer an unbiased summary?
Postmedia is biased junk.
Edit: amazing the same report but not done by right wing wannabe fox news rag seems to have different findings, and most certainly a different headline.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pbo-carbon-tax-1.7348421
Thursday’s updated report from the Parliamentary Budget Officer (PBO) found that — considering the average household cost of paying the consumer fuel levy, the GST that’s charged and the indirect costs from the carbon tax — on average, households will see a net gain in 2030-31.
The report also said that, “broadly speaking,” its analysis showed larger net gains and lower net household costs than its previous study did.
But on average, the PBO said, households were worse off when the economic impact on GDP and investment income is considered
“Given that the fuel charge lowers employment and investment income, which makes up a larger share of total income for higher-income households, their net cost is higher,” the PBO said on its website.
Id like to understand more the GDP part, since there are constant disagreements on how are GDP is calculated and such.
A big fuck you to anyone who argued that this tax would be beneficial.
Carbon tax to reduce emissions.
100% tariffs on affordable Chinese EVs to limit adoption of electric vehicles and continue using gas cars.
Very consistent objectives here. Tax the consumer first. Environment second.
Carbon tax is bad for the economy and doesn’t do anything for the environment. Companies cover the cost that they are charged by increasing prices. Who will explain such basic economics to the Liberals?
Oh you don’t say lol??? Everyone except Trudeau minions knows this,
Quoted from the article:
“But on average, the PBO said, households were worse off when the economic impact on GDP and investment income is considered.”
“Given that the fuel charge lowers employment and investment income, which makes up a larger share of total income for higher-income households, their net cost is higher,” the PBO said on its website.”
Almost sounds like it’s part of the plan. Giroux got a call from JT to ‘correct’ the report.
Now he can throw a hailmary and drop the carbon tax while gaslighting us saying that it was put in fore the benefit of Canadians based on the data and calculations in the initial report but now that he has a ‘corrected’ report he will drop the tax because he’s working hard for Canadians. He’ll say that what he was doing all along was following the math to help Canadians, now that the math changed he wants to help again by reversing his decision.
Maybe a little $500 cheque per family of freshly printed money for the ‘inconvenience’ of the last couple years
He’s all out of options. He’s seeing the same polls we are and is now willing to do anything to spin the narrative to save his own ass. This was never about climate change.
Implement a Cap and Trade system for corps, and leave the burden off working people.
How about just axe the bullshit?
This confirms the majority of Canadians are still ahead after the rebate and this doesn’t look at the alternatives to carbon tax, any of which will be even more disruptive and harmful to the economy and Canadians without question.
Carbon pricing remains a fundamentally conservative fiscal policy to address emissions and is the least impactful approach for Canadians. And ignoring the issue only pushes the mitigation and repair costs down the road a little as climate change impacts continue to increase and cost us more and more every single year.
We’ll, maybe so, maybe not. Complex and politicized issue.
But suppose people ARE marginally worse off. That’s not the worst thing, given that the stakes are having the whole world go up in flames. You watch the movies, people get shot at, jump from helicopters, fly planes through narrow ravines to save the world. We just have to have less junk. You don’t have too much junk already?
They “corrected it” the wrong way though. The title is wrong too, because the report now doesn’t look at the “Carbon tax”, it looks at the **fuel charge**.
> isolate the fuel charge itself
The fuel charge is just one component of carbon pricing. But people receive rebates from both that *and* the price on industrial emissions. One of the errors from the previous report is that the PBO assumed rebates were only from the fuel charge, and NONE from industrial emissions. But counted both as “costs” to the economy.
Now they omitted industrial emissions entirely. What they *should have done* is added industrial emissions’ revenue into the rebates we collect. That’s among the other blatant issues with the report.
At the very least though this post should be taken down for misinformation – like I said it’s a report on the fuel charge, but the carbon tax.
The carbon tax is the greatest scam in history. It’s basically a wealth transfer from those living in suburbs and outside big cities to those living in cities. If the money would be used to fund public transportation infrastructure or electric car charging stations or high speed trains, I would be all for it. But this is a joke.
Saying the carbon tax leaves Canadians worse off economically is like saying food inspections hurt the economy. The tradeoff is obviously worth it.
Sounds like the PBO is saying yes, you technically get the carbon taxes back, but the additional cost of the GST/HST on those taxes is kept by the government. Put another way, this basically gives the Feds and provinces a nice little tip. It’s not as much as the tax itself, but taken together it’s pulling money out of Canadians pockets.
Trudeau hasn’t told them how beneficial it is enough times, maybe 10-20 more times and it will be beneficial. Surely. Trudeau would never lie.
Can someone explain this part more?
*”But Giroux also went further, examining the economic impact of the carbon tax, which his analysis found slightly reduces Canada’s overall GDP and adds other costs to the economy. He found in that case, taking in both the direct and indirect cost of the carbon tax most households are worse off.”*
More back in rebates, but costs in other areas of economy, what does that translate as? And what’s the connection to making folks worse off? How so?
I’ve argued this point for over a year now. I pay significantly more than I get back, and all I do is run a very small construction company and have to drive to work.
I really hope the people who were telling us all the carbon tax was giving more back will finally admit they were wrong and the carbon tax wants to financially punish people so they can’t afford to burn any fuel.
Tent cities are climate change friendly!
In the last 10 years gdp has been total for Canada about 10 trillion, in the same time the carbon tax has brought in 32 billion. 0.3% now compare that to all other tax at around 15-20% and you realize it’s bullshit to think this has any real impact on the average person.
Pretending this has any meaningful impact on the economy is pretty much insane, it’s an absurdly small amount of money overall.
Primarily the largest polluters that really are just ignoring low lying inefficiency are impacted by this and are forced to make improvements.
Hmmmmmm, it’s almost like the carbon tax doesn’t do anything other than make things more expensive, and it also does nothing for the environment.
It’s impossible for people to get more back then they pay because HST is charged on top of the carbon tax. So for every dollar you pay in carbon tax, you also pay .13 in HST. And the HST isn’t part of the refund calculation.
A lot of people on here trying to defend their handout lol. Scrap the rebate and punish us all equally or fuck off with this shit. Basically paying the government a handling fee to move money from my left pocket to the right lol stupid shit.
If our country was physically much smaller with public transportation readily available, this type of program will work but they can hike the price of gas to $10 a litre if they want, it’s not going to work. Too many of us live in rural areas with our only options for transportation being a car or the thumbnail express. I live outside a city of about 80K people. It is a 15 minute drive to get to the doctor, groceries, dentist etc. There is no bus, subway or train. I can walk 30K to get groceries or take a car. Those are my options and I suspect most Canadians are the same way.
This policy was drawn up by people from the larger cities in the country without any knowledge or care about how most of us live. It’s falling flat on it’s face and people like me are footing the bill for it.
Anyone who believed otherwise needs to give their head a shake.
Shocker
No shit.
Not sure why it’s debatable. You increase the price to transport goods, things will get more expensive.
Libs get into mental gymnastics to justify that with their crazy rebates
Most scams leave people worse off.