Good. It’s unbelievable that Russia has managed to violate multiple international treaties, when Ukraine is suffering for trying to abide by them. We’ve been playing the “oblivious school teacher” role for too long.
Ideon_ on
That’s wild but actually reasonable at the same time, how can smaller countries achieve security when their neighbor keeps attacking them ? Either but building alliances or by nuclear deterrence.
It’s hypocritical to have major powers with all of the nukes being able to do anything they want or else they will nuke you.
At the same time the less countries have nukes the better.
This looks like a political stunt to pressure Nato to let Ukraine join more of an actual intent to have nukes, Ukraine definitely doesn’t have the resources for that.
Jindujun on
Since the west were instrumental in the deal to remove the nuclear weapons in the first place they should be obligated to remove Russia from Ukraine at this point.
Informal-Copy-2440 on
I hope NATO accepts Ukraine but if not, developing nuclear weapon would be a reasonable step to take. However, it is uncertain how Russia might respond to this news!
WillyLongbarrel on
As a former nuclear state that peacefully gave up its arsenal, I’d say Ukraine has as much right to nuclear weapons as any other country. The world gave Ukraine legal guarantees in exchange for disarmament, and the world failed those guarantees.Â
DaveDurant on
Can they join the EU and/or NATO while they’re actively at war?
I thought that wasn’t allowed but could be wrong..
stonesode on
Ukraine relinquished nukes for security assurances and then Russia invaded them 30 years later anyway, seems sensible since their neighbour is being aggressive and nobody else is adequately helping.
Oaoadil on
Give them nukes
KeyLog256 on
Good discussion about this going on another thread, but the source was the Kyiv Post, who in turn used Bild as a source, which suggested they’d have one in “weeks”. So unfortunately that’s now deleted – bullshit from Bild, but some great comments/analysis.
In short – this is potential suicide for Ukraine.
There are *strong* treaties against the proliferation of nukes, which we in the West largely police, see Iran for example. Turning a blind eye to this causes a total geopolitical nightmare which gets very nasty, potentially very quickly.
It’s a choice for Ukraine – pursue this, or risk losing Western backing. The US for a start will be having none of it.
That might be the answer though – Zelensky is being shrewd, as ever, and giving a hearty ultimatum. Give us more support, or we go nuclear. Whether that risk is worth it for us, and I’d imagine more details are being given via back channels, remains to be seen.
This is likely Zelensky forcing us into a tough position – either help us, or we go for the nuclear option.
Let’s just hope it works out.
PineBNorth85 on
If they hadn’t given them up in the first place they wouldn’t have been invaded. The west abandoning them after guaranteeing their territorial integrity will guarantee both that no one will ever give up their nukes if they have them, and if they don’t that they should get them.Â
jpg06051992 on
The West is playing softball with Russia because imo we aren’t serious about Ukraine winning, we are just serious about bleeding the Russians dry and attempting to cause a second collapse of the Russian government.
Either the West mans up and greatly expedites weapon shipments AND removes ALL asinine weapon restrictions (both militarily and politically stupid I might add, cowardly Biden and Germany) or provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons and tell Putin to eat shit.
Asking Ukraine to militarily defeat Russia with 1 hand tied behind their back is just insane.
Stamperdoodle1 on
From a defence standpoint, Ukraine really has every right to pursue this course of action as unfortunate as that is. They co-operated and disarmed the leftover nuclear arsenal from the USSR and as a result they’re now in the one circumstance that EVERY nation uses as a reason for why they have nukes “If we don’t have them, we get fucked”.
No Nato? Okay well then they’re obviously going to pursue whatever route they can to stonewall any future offensive.
Maximum-Flat on
There gonna be more nations pursue nuclear weapons. It is surprising easy for a nation to acquire or develop nuclear weapons.
TheTrueStanly on
I mean, what a symbol to every country, that giving up nuclear weapons and get security deals with two powerful nations will prevent you from beeing invaded. I mean who would give up their nuclear arsenal ever now?
EmbarrassedHelp on
What’s sad is that if the West had given Ukraine what it needed when the war began, there’s a good chance that we wouldn’t be discussing Ukraine building nukes now.
Delays, appeasement, and stupidity have consequences.
ConsiderationWild833 on
Ok, well as a damn Yankee I think he can do whatever he wants. We didn’t ask permission and neither did any other atomic power. Europe wanting to pretend he needs to justify defending his nation against Russia is laughable. I hope he fights, I hope wins! Glory to Ukraine!
SnooDonuts5498 on
It’s an opening bid. So sad that this is the world situation.
hukep on
That actually sounds reasonable. No one wants nuclear proliferation, but aside from capitulation, Ukraine has no other options left—especially with the West being highly reluctant to put boots on the ground and directly assist Ukraine.
skibbin on
I hear North Korea has some recently acquired nuclear secrets it’d sell for the right price…
bandita07 on
Give back the nukes that Ukraine gave up for the Budapest memorandum. That memorandum is void due to russia..
Optimal-Kitchen6308 on
working on the Palyanytsya with special sauce
pxr555 on
I can fully understand him, he wants to defend his country at all costs. But at the same time he seems to realize that he needs to escalate this or Russia will win. This means turning the war between Russia and Ukraine into a Third World War and the other countries in Europe aren’t keen at that at all.
And also this is understandable: US support is fragile (what if Trump wins the election?), Europe could hardly defend itself alone and either way a full-on war in Europe would totally wreck it. The appetite for war in Europe is very, very weak among Europeans. They may support Ukraine in principle, but they do not want to go to war with Russia, especially since Russia didn’t attack them.
xCITRUSx on
And who could blame them?
What-time-is-it-456 on
Don’t blame them one bit.
throwawayhyperbeam on
Putin disliked this
GlowstickConsumption on
Fair enough.
GoFastAndBreakStuff on
Of course! Pursue it regardless. We all should. Welcome to the future
Bitter_Kiwi_9352 on
It’s always important to consider WHY people say things more than WHAT they say. This is the first time Ukraine has mentioned it’s own nukes. Why?
They want a path to end the war. They seized parts of Kursk to get Russia’s attention, and to divert resources from other sectors in the south. That was never going to be a permanent occupation, and indeed – the Russians are already re-claiming Kursk territory that Ukraine was never seriously expecting to actually HOLD – just rather to keep bleeding the Russians, but on home turf.
The West is dithering on giving them what they figure they need to win the war – additional machinery, capabilities, and permission to strike further into Russia to mitigate the danger of stand-off bombing, active missile defense, ultimately a no-fly zone or direct intervention. So – Ukraine is not-so-gently reminding people they had the third largest arsenal in the world in 1991, and still have the capability to get back at least to where North Korea and Pakistan are in terms of capability, if you keep screwing with them.
It’s a shot across the bow more to the West than to Russia, I’d wager. Help us, or we’re going to have to help ourselves in a more escalatory way.
Wambo74 on
Not sure nukes will help them. Putin talks nukes but unlikely to actually use them. And all Ukrainian nukes can actually do is deter a Russian nuke strike. If neither country can afford to use them then it doesn’t really change anything. What Ukraine really needs are serious deep strike weapons so they can blow up Moscow power plants when their own are hit, etc. There need to be consequences for Russia targeting civilians and infrastructure.
Noclassydrops on
I bet money ukraine is a lot further along nuclear power than joining nato sadly
Material_Policy6327 on
They never should have given up their arms to begin with
acityonthemoon on
I think Zelenskey understands the world as it is. Either it’s strength in alliances, or it’s strength in nuclear warheads.
32 Comments
Good. It’s unbelievable that Russia has managed to violate multiple international treaties, when Ukraine is suffering for trying to abide by them. We’ve been playing the “oblivious school teacher” role for too long.
That’s wild but actually reasonable at the same time, how can smaller countries achieve security when their neighbor keeps attacking them ? Either but building alliances or by nuclear deterrence.
It’s hypocritical to have major powers with all of the nukes being able to do anything they want or else they will nuke you.
At the same time the less countries have nukes the better.
This looks like a political stunt to pressure Nato to let Ukraine join more of an actual intent to have nukes, Ukraine definitely doesn’t have the resources for that.
Since the west were instrumental in the deal to remove the nuclear weapons in the first place they should be obligated to remove Russia from Ukraine at this point.
I hope NATO accepts Ukraine but if not, developing nuclear weapon would be a reasonable step to take. However, it is uncertain how Russia might respond to this news!
As a former nuclear state that peacefully gave up its arsenal, I’d say Ukraine has as much right to nuclear weapons as any other country. The world gave Ukraine legal guarantees in exchange for disarmament, and the world failed those guarantees.Â
Can they join the EU and/or NATO while they’re actively at war?
I thought that wasn’t allowed but could be wrong..
Ukraine relinquished nukes for security assurances and then Russia invaded them 30 years later anyway, seems sensible since their neighbour is being aggressive and nobody else is adequately helping.
Give them nukes
Good discussion about this going on another thread, but the source was the Kyiv Post, who in turn used Bild as a source, which suggested they’d have one in “weeks”. So unfortunately that’s now deleted – bullshit from Bild, but some great comments/analysis.
In short – this is potential suicide for Ukraine.
There are *strong* treaties against the proliferation of nukes, which we in the West largely police, see Iran for example. Turning a blind eye to this causes a total geopolitical nightmare which gets very nasty, potentially very quickly.
It’s a choice for Ukraine – pursue this, or risk losing Western backing. The US for a start will be having none of it.
That might be the answer though – Zelensky is being shrewd, as ever, and giving a hearty ultimatum. Give us more support, or we go nuclear. Whether that risk is worth it for us, and I’d imagine more details are being given via back channels, remains to be seen.
This is likely Zelensky forcing us into a tough position – either help us, or we go for the nuclear option.
Let’s just hope it works out.
If they hadn’t given them up in the first place they wouldn’t have been invaded. The west abandoning them after guaranteeing their territorial integrity will guarantee both that no one will ever give up their nukes if they have them, and if they don’t that they should get them.Â
The West is playing softball with Russia because imo we aren’t serious about Ukraine winning, we are just serious about bleeding the Russians dry and attempting to cause a second collapse of the Russian government.
Either the West mans up and greatly expedites weapon shipments AND removes ALL asinine weapon restrictions (both militarily and politically stupid I might add, cowardly Biden and Germany) or provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons and tell Putin to eat shit.
Asking Ukraine to militarily defeat Russia with 1 hand tied behind their back is just insane.
From a defence standpoint, Ukraine really has every right to pursue this course of action as unfortunate as that is. They co-operated and disarmed the leftover nuclear arsenal from the USSR and as a result they’re now in the one circumstance that EVERY nation uses as a reason for why they have nukes “If we don’t have them, we get fucked”.
No Nato? Okay well then they’re obviously going to pursue whatever route they can to stonewall any future offensive.
There gonna be more nations pursue nuclear weapons. It is surprising easy for a nation to acquire or develop nuclear weapons.
I mean, what a symbol to every country, that giving up nuclear weapons and get security deals with two powerful nations will prevent you from beeing invaded. I mean who would give up their nuclear arsenal ever now?
What’s sad is that if the West had given Ukraine what it needed when the war began, there’s a good chance that we wouldn’t be discussing Ukraine building nukes now.
Delays, appeasement, and stupidity have consequences.
Ok, well as a damn Yankee I think he can do whatever he wants. We didn’t ask permission and neither did any other atomic power. Europe wanting to pretend he needs to justify defending his nation against Russia is laughable. I hope he fights, I hope wins! Glory to Ukraine!
It’s an opening bid. So sad that this is the world situation.
That actually sounds reasonable. No one wants nuclear proliferation, but aside from capitulation, Ukraine has no other options left—especially with the West being highly reluctant to put boots on the ground and directly assist Ukraine.
I hear North Korea has some recently acquired nuclear secrets it’d sell for the right price…
Give back the nukes that Ukraine gave up for the Budapest memorandum. That memorandum is void due to russia..
working on the Palyanytsya with special sauce
I can fully understand him, he wants to defend his country at all costs. But at the same time he seems to realize that he needs to escalate this or Russia will win. This means turning the war between Russia and Ukraine into a Third World War and the other countries in Europe aren’t keen at that at all.
And also this is understandable: US support is fragile (what if Trump wins the election?), Europe could hardly defend itself alone and either way a full-on war in Europe would totally wreck it. The appetite for war in Europe is very, very weak among Europeans. They may support Ukraine in principle, but they do not want to go to war with Russia, especially since Russia didn’t attack them.
And who could blame them?
Don’t blame them one bit.
Putin disliked this
Fair enough.
Of course! Pursue it regardless. We all should. Welcome to the future
It’s always important to consider WHY people say things more than WHAT they say. This is the first time Ukraine has mentioned it’s own nukes. Why?
They want a path to end the war. They seized parts of Kursk to get Russia’s attention, and to divert resources from other sectors in the south. That was never going to be a permanent occupation, and indeed – the Russians are already re-claiming Kursk territory that Ukraine was never seriously expecting to actually HOLD – just rather to keep bleeding the Russians, but on home turf.
The West is dithering on giving them what they figure they need to win the war – additional machinery, capabilities, and permission to strike further into Russia to mitigate the danger of stand-off bombing, active missile defense, ultimately a no-fly zone or direct intervention. So – Ukraine is not-so-gently reminding people they had the third largest arsenal in the world in 1991, and still have the capability to get back at least to where North Korea and Pakistan are in terms of capability, if you keep screwing with them.
It’s a shot across the bow more to the West than to Russia, I’d wager. Help us, or we’re going to have to help ourselves in a more escalatory way.
Not sure nukes will help them. Putin talks nukes but unlikely to actually use them. And all Ukrainian nukes can actually do is deter a Russian nuke strike. If neither country can afford to use them then it doesn’t really change anything. What Ukraine really needs are serious deep strike weapons so they can blow up Moscow power plants when their own are hit, etc. There need to be consequences for Russia targeting civilians and infrastructure.
I bet money ukraine is a lot further along nuclear power than joining nato sadly
They never should have given up their arms to begin with
I think Zelenskey understands the world as it is. Either it’s strength in alliances, or it’s strength in nuclear warheads.