>In Washington and some western capitals, meanwhile — and in the corridors of Kyiv — the mood is shifting: from a determination that the war can end only with Russia’s army driven from Ukraine, to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.
Redefining on a Ukrainian “win”:
1) Keep what Ukraine has. Bye, Crimea, parts of the Donbas, the ‘land bridge’ areas, and the Sea of Azov. No official recognition of giving these up but an armistice takes effect where there is de facto post-war Russian occupation of those territories.
2) No constraints on what a post-war Ukrainian military will be.
3) Ukraine can apply to join NATO and the EU if they want.
a_dolf_in on
Im just waiting to see the first redditor to call the financial times a russian backed propaganda piece, the way things have been going on this website.
People here will have to come to terms with the fact that they have been lied to about the state of the war in ukraine since at least Bakhmut. It was never as good as it has been reported, and everything that has been swept under the rug has continuously added up, and now it has mutated and is emerging.
the_endik on
Exactly the same thing that enabled the Nazis a headstart in WWII strikes again: inability of liberal democracy to answer military challenges poised by authoritarian regimes.
designbydesign on
That’s a surprising read. There are multiple indicators pointing to Russia running out of resources before or during 2025.
If West continues to support Kyiv the war will be over before the end of next year.
Jazano107 on
I think these opinion pieces should wait until after the US election to say these things
It’s quite obvious that no risks are being taken due to that atm
Lapkonium on
Maybe the real war aims were the friends we ~~made~~ lost along the way?
dat_9600gt_user on
Wish the allies stopped being so fatalist about Ukraine and just sent the supplies.
Competitive-Kick747 on
Israel happened……….attention shifted
WSHK99 on
This kind of news keep showing since day 1
Admiral_Janovsky on
The political cohesion of Europe will NEVER be united. The enemy just needs a decent propaganda machine and can turn whole Europe into fighting between themselves, then swoop in with gaslighting and take over. And the same can be said for USA and their willingness to support others.
It just makes me angry and sad at the whole situation.
LargeStatement2360 on
shortsighted fools, their poor strategy will only cause even larger war when rashist horde rebuilds its capabilities. then we westerners will pay by blood .
KernunQc7 on
“to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.”
There it is, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Next up the Baltics and Moldova/RO once the rest of the “intact” Ukraine is subdued.
It will probably be coordinated to time with CN solving the Taiwan issue.
The lesson for every else on the planet: nuclear blackmail works, and it works very well on the US. Get nukes and you can pretty much do whatever you want.
_2B- on
>Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, presented a “victory plan” in Washington last month that sought to persuade Kyiv’s allies to bolster his position, militarily and diplomatically, and force Moscow to the table. He left empty-handed on two key requests: progress towards Nato, and US permission for Kyiv to use western missiles for long-range strikes on Russian territory.
The practice of lip service by the US and current NATO members on allowing Ukraine to join is just that, lip service. Allowing Ukraine to believe it’s a possibility will further damage the best case scenario for a peace deal that would work for both involved.
Furthermore, the US and the heavy hitters in NATO, the EU, must be permanently concerned, quite rightly, on the idea that Russia is faced with a real threat to national sovereignty that the current non-Democratic rule will press the red button. The idea that people have in their head, that a massive nuclear nation can just be deposed without a dramatic causation is naive at best.
What the article fails to elaborate, is that this isn’t a Ukraine problem, it’s a US problem, it’s a major state European problem. When the Middle Eastern conflict proliferated as it did, as it has, Ukraine was no longer the focus. It will never be the focus as long as Israel remains unabashed in its resolve to war with every other country in the region. Quite frankly, Ukraine is old news and quicker that the Ukrainian’s understand that the better so they can get a deal that isn’t game over for them as a nation, rebuild and build nukes, nukes that were robbed from them, by the people that supposedly have their ‘best’ interests.
Okkoto8 on
Russia, North Korea, Iran and China winning against Ukraine and the west would cost mor than just parts of ukraine.
It strengthens this unholy alliance and is a precedent for wars to come.
Financial_Exit7114 on
This was already the case with crimea, they dont care on agreements. Their game book doesnt follow your gentleman rules. Just start again when weapons built up again then next is Poland and other nations. See the history and previous engagements. When Ukraine is part of Russia then all their tech and capabilities is obtained. That is the game plan. MRGA same as MAGA
unknown-one on
Is this article from 2022?
Krakersik666 on
What about abducted 30-40k children? Are they got to go home or not ?
ass__cancer on
New Dolchstoßlegende just dropped
Demigans on
I’m not sure why though?
Even with current support, Russia will (relatively) soon hit major constraints in it’s resupply of materiel as their soviet stockpiles are running out. While this won’t be visible immediately, it will cause a severe decrease of Russian capabilities on the battlefield as the war goes on. Russia’s main ability to capture territory is through it’s artillery numbers, and those are some of the first to run out.
Additionally it’ll become increasingly difficult for Russia to keep the war going without the Russian population getting starved for increasing amounts of luxury goods as their financial reserves are being depleted based on their own accounts. Unless there is a massive shift in the Russian population it’ll become increasingly difficult to keep the war going.
In the meantime so long as Ukraine keeps getting stuff, they’ll eventually encounter situations like Karkhiv where Russia has too few troops along a frontline. Especially the Khursk attack forced Russia a complete re-evaluation of how it disperses it’s troops since it now has to station way more troops along the entire border rather than just the occupied Ukrainian area’s. Additionally digging into Khursk means that Russia will need way more resources and manpower to take it back than Ukraine needed to capture it.
Russia’s myth of endless manpower and equipment is reaching it’s limits. While another two or three years of war is absolutely not great, it will get worse for Russia as time goes on so long as Ukraine keeps getting help from the West.
Fuzzy9770 on
I’m so ashamed to be part of the west.
Edit: Ukraine gets crumbs with no ability to really do something while Israel gets everything on a silver plate to commit several genocides…
shing3232 on
Western would not offer that kind of support thst kyiv needs to win the war from the beginning. You need at least partial mobilization in manufacturer but people are not gonna to do thst willingly. If the government does that people would vote them out in a instant
Biliunas on
So basically Russia accomplishes most of the goals it set out to achieve in return for a severely weakened ukraine that in turn weakens EU NATO further? And this is the “strongest military alliance on the planet” that is set to “defend democratic values across the globe”? Great.
CobhamMayor27 on
If Europe wanted the war to end, they would fund Ukraine more than the US has. Russia is evil and must be defeated, but Europe needs to step up
23 Comments
Key paragraph:
>In Washington and some western capitals, meanwhile — and in the corridors of Kyiv — the mood is shifting: from a determination that the war can end only with Russia’s army driven from Ukraine, to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.
Redefining on a Ukrainian “win”:
1) Keep what Ukraine has. Bye, Crimea, parts of the Donbas, the ‘land bridge’ areas, and the Sea of Azov. No official recognition of giving these up but an armistice takes effect where there is de facto post-war Russian occupation of those territories.
2) No constraints on what a post-war Ukrainian military will be.
3) Ukraine can apply to join NATO and the EU if they want.
Im just waiting to see the first redditor to call the financial times a russian backed propaganda piece, the way things have been going on this website.
People here will have to come to terms with the fact that they have been lied to about the state of the war in ukraine since at least Bakhmut. It was never as good as it has been reported, and everything that has been swept under the rug has continuously added up, and now it has mutated and is emerging.
Exactly the same thing that enabled the Nazis a headstart in WWII strikes again: inability of liberal democracy to answer military challenges poised by authoritarian regimes.
That’s a surprising read. There are multiple indicators pointing to Russia running out of resources before or during 2025.
If West continues to support Kyiv the war will be over before the end of next year.
I think these opinion pieces should wait until after the US election to say these things
It’s quite obvious that no risks are being taken due to that atm
Maybe the real war aims were the friends we ~~made~~ lost along the way?
Wish the allies stopped being so fatalist about Ukraine and just sent the supplies.
Israel happened……….attention shifted
This kind of news keep showing since day 1
The political cohesion of Europe will NEVER be united. The enemy just needs a decent propaganda machine and can turn whole Europe into fighting between themselves, then swoop in with gaslighting and take over. And the same can be said for USA and their willingness to support others.
It just makes me angry and sad at the whole situation.
shortsighted fools, their poor strategy will only cause even larger war when rashist horde rebuilds its capabilities. then we westerners will pay by blood .
“to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.”
There it is, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Next up the Baltics and Moldova/RO once the rest of the “intact” Ukraine is subdued.
It will probably be coordinated to time with CN solving the Taiwan issue.
The lesson for every else on the planet: nuclear blackmail works, and it works very well on the US. Get nukes and you can pretty much do whatever you want.
>Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, presented a “victory plan” in Washington last month that sought to persuade Kyiv’s allies to bolster his position, militarily and diplomatically, and force Moscow to the table. He left empty-handed on two key requests: progress towards Nato, and US permission for Kyiv to use western missiles for long-range strikes on Russian territory.
The practice of lip service by the US and current NATO members on allowing Ukraine to join is just that, lip service. Allowing Ukraine to believe it’s a possibility will further damage the best case scenario for a peace deal that would work for both involved.
Furthermore, the US and the heavy hitters in NATO, the EU, must be permanently concerned, quite rightly, on the idea that Russia is faced with a real threat to national sovereignty that the current non-Democratic rule will press the red button. The idea that people have in their head, that a massive nuclear nation can just be deposed without a dramatic causation is naive at best.
What the article fails to elaborate, is that this isn’t a Ukraine problem, it’s a US problem, it’s a major state European problem. When the Middle Eastern conflict proliferated as it did, as it has, Ukraine was no longer the focus. It will never be the focus as long as Israel remains unabashed in its resolve to war with every other country in the region. Quite frankly, Ukraine is old news and quicker that the Ukrainian’s understand that the better so they can get a deal that isn’t game over for them as a nation, rebuild and build nukes, nukes that were robbed from them, by the people that supposedly have their ‘best’ interests.
Russia, North Korea, Iran and China winning against Ukraine and the west would cost mor than just parts of ukraine.
It strengthens this unholy alliance and is a precedent for wars to come.
This was already the case with crimea, they dont care on agreements. Their game book doesnt follow your gentleman rules. Just start again when weapons built up again then next is Poland and other nations. See the history and previous engagements. When Ukraine is part of Russia then all their tech and capabilities is obtained. That is the game plan. MRGA same as MAGA
Is this article from 2022?
What about abducted 30-40k children? Are they got to go home or not ?
New Dolchstoßlegende just dropped
I’m not sure why though?
Even with current support, Russia will (relatively) soon hit major constraints in it’s resupply of materiel as their soviet stockpiles are running out. While this won’t be visible immediately, it will cause a severe decrease of Russian capabilities on the battlefield as the war goes on. Russia’s main ability to capture territory is through it’s artillery numbers, and those are some of the first to run out.
Additionally it’ll become increasingly difficult for Russia to keep the war going without the Russian population getting starved for increasing amounts of luxury goods as their financial reserves are being depleted based on their own accounts. Unless there is a massive shift in the Russian population it’ll become increasingly difficult to keep the war going.
In the meantime so long as Ukraine keeps getting stuff, they’ll eventually encounter situations like Karkhiv where Russia has too few troops along a frontline. Especially the Khursk attack forced Russia a complete re-evaluation of how it disperses it’s troops since it now has to station way more troops along the entire border rather than just the occupied Ukrainian area’s. Additionally digging into Khursk means that Russia will need way more resources and manpower to take it back than Ukraine needed to capture it.
Russia’s myth of endless manpower and equipment is reaching it’s limits. While another two or three years of war is absolutely not great, it will get worse for Russia as time goes on so long as Ukraine keeps getting help from the West.
I’m so ashamed to be part of the west.
Edit: Ukraine gets crumbs with no ability to really do something while Israel gets everything on a silver plate to commit several genocides…
Western would not offer that kind of support thst kyiv needs to win the war from the beginning. You need at least partial mobilization in manufacturer but people are not gonna to do thst willingly. If the government does that people would vote them out in a instant
So basically Russia accomplishes most of the goals it set out to achieve in return for a severely weakened ukraine that in turn weakens EU NATO further? And this is the “strongest military alliance on the planet” that is set to “defend democratic values across the globe”? Great.
If Europe wanted the war to end, they would fund Ukraine more than the US has. Russia is evil and must be defeated, but Europe needs to step up